Monday, 1 February 2010

And, like magic, the backlash to the recent GRRM sample appears...

One word - inevitable.

When Pat posted a sample of GRRM's latest 'Dunk and Egg' novella, The Mystery Knight, I knew it would be only a matter of time before all the haters crawled out of the woodwork, spouting their moronic nonsense about GRRM.

And sure enough, they did. If you ever wanted an example of how pathetic these people are, look no further than this thread of comments (fortunately, the IQ level is maintained by plenty of sensible folk with rational posts).

I'm not interested in regurgitating my own opinion - it's not changed since my post on the subject almost exactly a year ago.

Sean Speakman, however, is annoyed enough about it that he's once more analysed all the various arguments both for and against GRRM. There's not a lot of new material there, but the article is well worth checking out all the same.


Anonymous said...

The one thing in this that pisses me off, especially with Pat is, he shuts down comments after some people say negative--and much in bad taste, to denigrate ones appearance for instance--about an author who he knows. Obviously likes George and loves the fact he speaks with him. But it's okay for him to denigrate Terry Goodkind all the time? The Yeard. That's saying something about his appearance. He openly writes all kind of negatives about Mr. Goodkind because he doesn't like his writing? his views?
I don't see much difference in that and what some folks consider their right when speaking of Mr. Martin.
Oh, don't say such things about George he's a friend, however, Mr. Goodkind is free reign to bash as often as he and others like?
Can somebody please explain the difference to me?

Ryan said...

And actually I thought I put Name/URL when I posted as I don't think it's right to hide behind an anonymous tag. so I'll try again.

N. R. Alexander said...

The outcry in the comments section to Pat's post represents precisely the sort of hateful, vitriolic fangasm that's put me off reading A Song of Ice and Fire in the past. I know I shouldn't take it out on GRRM or think any less of his work because of it, but I just... I don't want any part in this sort of demeaning, playground nonsense.

Gabriele C. said...

Ryan, he shut down comments after a spambot generated troll attack that alone counted for about 100 out of the 250 comments on that post. He's not at home now and doesn't have the time to sort out problems in a more elegant way, Closing comments is one mouseclick on Blogger.

And no one on Pat's blog, Westeros or other places has made sexually charged comments about Goodkind like the ones about Martin. Those are base, vile, and disgusting, and the reason I was among those who asked Pat to close comments.

Aidan Moher said...

Sexually charged?

Mega Man said...

How are you, by calling the so-called haters, 'moronic' and 'pathetic' any different to the same people you appear to look down upon? Indeed, does appearing to question the IQ level of the so-called haters make you feel superior to them?

One thing you are missing out on. Being frustrated at the delay of ADwD does not automatically make one a hater, just as being patient does not make a person appear to be a sycophant.

And secondly, Pat himself stated that some of the posts were done by different people because of the variations in IP addresses. There is every chance that some of the 'hate' comments posted in the blog were in fact done by GRRM's supporters, just so that it makes the 'haters' look like an angry bunch of kids, therefore giving further sympathy to poor GRRM, being attacked by nasty internet kids impatient for their book. Reverse psychology ftw.

David Wagner said...

I find that I fit in both camps quite squarely. I am a serious fan of the series and am dyin' for the next book. I'm also quite miffed at the delays and missed deadlines and apparent massive obstacles (be they personal, psychological, logistical, whatever) that seem to be dragging the process out.

Yeah, if he hadn't made any promises about delivery, we wouldn't be having this convo. But looking forward to Christmas, counting down the months/weeks/days, only to learn it's been postponed another year... then another... if he'd just said "Hey, it's done when it's done, like a Blizzard game, now go away" I'd stew in silence. And if the writing wasn't so friggin good, I wouldn't care either way.

I'm a writer myself, and a "hunt and peck" one at that. I can write about 1,000 words in an hour average. I know there's a lot more to writing (especially writing well) than just cranking out rough draft... still, 5 years would result in a ridiculous amount of text even for me, an hour a day, hunt and peck. I can't help but think he has some serious confidence issues, as far as his ability to produce a second half of the series that is on par with the first. After the tepid reception of Feast, I think his confidence took a big hit. It's easier to run to other projects when the main series has become a sensitive, painful issue...

I wish him all the best. I love his work. I am a fan. And I wish he wrote faster. Even after Dance finally comes out, good or bad, it will be a long-ass wait for book 6 as well...

Good thing I've found many other great writers to read in the interim. That's why I read your blog to begin with. Thanks again.

James said...

Ryan - the difference is that Terry Goodkind is a poor writer with a stellar ego, he looks down on the fantasy genre and has said some disgraceful things about people that don't like his books (and the genre in general).

By contrast, GRRM is an excellent writer who -contrary to what the haters think - is very humble and down to earth, is also a total fanboy of the speculative genres and - despite severe provocation from some quarters - refuses to be drawn into a slanging match.

Or at least that's how I see it! ;)

N. R. Alexander - Don't let it put you off, because you're missing a killer series! Though you can always wait until the series is finished before diving in...although you'll probably be waiting a while.

Mega Man - The haters are attacking a brilliant writer who has given them hours upon hours of enjoyment, for no good reason (and no, the delay with the next book is NOT a good enough reason for the deluge of abuse).

While they have no grounds for their petty attacks, I DO have valid grounds for my criticisms of them. That, to my mind, is the difference between me and the haters.

I don't need to make myself feel superior - I already do feel superior to them by virtue of the fact that I'm not aiming verbal abuse at someone who has done nothing at all to deserve it.

I'm not missing that point at all - I readily agree that fans that are impatient are not necessarily haters. Hell, I'm a little impatient myself! But it's how we react to the delay that defines how we're perceived, and some people clearly can't handle the wait.

As for your last point, I'm a little dubious - there's no shortage of haters out there, so I don't see the need for that. But that sort of thing is also uncalled for.

David - you're pretty much spot on there, that's the kind of balanced assessment I wish more people had.

Jebus said...

(these are comments in general and are not specific to any of the above posts)

I really am amazed at some of the vitriol and idiocy on both "sides" of this "debate". In the end it's just a book; the "haters" should get over their misplaced self righteousness and the "lovers" should ignore any baiting.

And Pat can do whatever the fuck he likes - it's a God Damn BLOG for Christ's sake! Do they think 'cause he shuts down some comments or pisses on Goodkind that he's bound by the Geneva Convention of Blogging? That he OWES someone his respect 'cause they decided to read his blog and comment on a post?

I really do get surprised about how some people think their opinion actually matters or that their outrage or support can do anything to anyone in any situation beyond make me laugh.

I know without a shred of humility or self-aggrandising ego that even my opinion of things not mattering DOESN'T MATTER!!!

But anyway, keep up the laughs!

Aidan Moher said...

Jebus, if Pat's blog is just a 'God Damn BLOG for Christ's sake!', doesn't the same hold up for Martin's blog. The same blog that he's often comdemned for keeping because he often blogs about 'whatever the fuck he likes'?

For the record, I agree with you about a bloggers right to be able to blog about whatever the hell interests them. It's just that you're levelling the same arguments at the detractors of Pat's blog as we are at the detractor's of Not a Blog.

Slynt said...

You have it all wrong. Nuff said.

Anonymous said...

From Arstan

Arstan said...

Dude i was one of the trolls. Get the fuck over it dumbass, i can assure you all the trolls involved had a higher iq and a longer dick then you.

James said...

Arstan, you're clearly annoyed by my insinuation that all the haters and trolls are you come on here and act like one, thus conforming to type - good move.

In any case, if you have nothing better to do than compare penis sizes with your troll pals, then I feel sorry for you.

Anyway, I'm disabling comments for this post because I haven't got time to deal with more troll bullshittery (already had to spend 10 minutes this morning deleting pathetic troll posts, presumably from Arstan). Apologies to those of you who actually have something sensible to say, though there's plenty of other blogs where you can say it!